Debate: Dr. Zakir Naik vs. Dr William Campbell – The Quran and the Bible in the Light of Science

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Debate: The Quran and the Bible in the Light of Science. Dr. Zakir Naik vs Dr William Campbell – Chicago, April1, 2000. Organized by the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA).

Comments

Shray Trinh says:

I question the authentication, because the math I presented does not lie, and has far more weight than your supposedly “credible” hadith, People can not corrupt the word of God (quran) but can always fabricate their own hadith my friend.

Shray Trinh says:

Then you are brainwashed and let your emotions get the best of you rather than using your brain and looking at the facts. Let’s get real and tell it like it is. I mean you tell me that Islam contradicts God’s law without any further evidence, just your own little claim. You probably believe what you think is true simply because you were TOLD it is true, either by your parents growing up or by your Church. Islam on the other hand tells it’s followers to seek knowledge, to strengthen our faith.

Shray Trinh says:

Well said, it is definitely unusual when opponents particularly argue either with their own biases or mere internet sources, like the individual who quoted hadith that were compiled by a Ahmadi source. Irrelevant as any other anti Islam argumentation presented here.

Shray Trinh says:

When I say sheilded from such I am referring to un authentic hadith I ran out of characters on that last one.

Shray Trinh says:

Now Orsak my good man, I’m sure you know of the saying that “numbers don’t lie.” The information that I gave you is irrefutable evidence that even your Christian scholarship acknowledged as correct, and if you do the arithmetic that I presented with it, it is obvious beyond the shadow of a doubt that she was not 9 years old. There are such things that Muslim scholarship considers “authentic hadith”, and to be sheilded from such we are better of relying on unbiased arithmetic, which is right.

Shray Trinh says:

Now, back to the debate. Well done, you know how to copy and paste. Like I said, there is a lot of stuff out there that will tell you she was 9, as it is just accounts that have been orally passed on based on alleged sources, sahih bukhari is one of the most trustworthy sources, but isn’t impervious to being trifled with. I believe that the hadith you stated was compiled by Zahid Aziz, a Ahmadiya Muslim, who frankly speaking, is not a very good source, as they are not mainstream Muslims.Cont.

Shray Trinh says:

They’re towards the end of January, but prep from now is necessary for a good score. Thanks, I appreciate it, and hey I don’t believe in luck either, I believe in preparation and God’s will. Debating aside, I want to let you know that I have great respect for Christian people, despite what I may say during my rebuttals and what not. The Christian people are definitely kind, as I have the pleasure of growing up with them since I was born and raised in the states.They are decent people.

nad067 says:

all these
‘scholars of Internet Islam
‘ lambasting the religion while not knowing a single word of arabic really irk me.You cant learn religion simply by copying and pasting. You should go learn from an Imam.
Learn arabic and then take your time to read the Quran. May you then find the peace you sought. Amen

Joe Orsak says:

PS. “mindlessly ranting your foolishness.” Thank you for the insults. It lets me know I’m on the right track.

PPS. Not that I believe in luck, either you have prepared or you have not, but “Good luck” on your exams.

Joe Orsak says:

“The fact that you let a few lunatic terrorists shape your perception of an entire religion”

Who said I “Let it shape my opinion of a whole religion?”

You know nothing of my views of Islam. I reject Islam for a simple reason; it contradicts the clear word of God’s law, God’s prophets and the Messiah himself as I have already specifically outlined on numerous occasions here and even to you.

The fact that Islam produces a large and violent population is just ADDITIONAL reason for rejection.

Joe Orsak says:

Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.43 no.236 p.153.

Same comments found in Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.60 no.88 p.65 and Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.115 no.163 p.119 as well as 20+ other pieces of information that make it clear he did have sex with her.

Joe Orsak says:

“Aisha was not married for sex, refuting your claims of pedophilia.”

Incorrect. Illogical argument. I never said he married her FOR SEX. I said he HAD SEX WITH HER. Thus, that has nothing to do with refuting the fact that he had sex with her when she was 9 or the fact that sex with a 9 yr old is a pedophile’s description.

Is there credible MUSLIM sources that document the fact that he consummated the relationship with his child bride? yes there are.

(Cont.)

Joe Orsak says:

would be the sacrifice that atoned for the sins of many (Is 53:4-6, 10, 12). And the Messiah himself REPEATEDLY told you that he came to die (Mk 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34). He even told you exactly HOW he would die (Mt 20:19, 26:2) and EXACTLY WHY he must die for the sins of many (Mt 26:28).

YET, you wish to point to a book that no serious scholar submits as authoritarianism as your rebuttal to the plain, clear, easy, repetitive message of Gods word.

And you have the nerve to call ME biased.

Joe Orsak says:

#1. I study HISTORY. The Gospel of Barnabas is a great example of YOUR bias as you wish to assert it because it agrees with your Muslim biases as it is by no means accepted as authoritative by the mass majority of scholarship.

#2. You assert it against all other factual evidence including the law and the prophets. The law is repetitiously clear that sacrifice is required for the forgiveness of sin. (Leviticus 17:11, Hebrews 9:22), the prophets made perfectly clear that the Messiah (Cont.)

Joe Orsak says:

Quoting from Wikipedia, “The Gospel of Barnabas is a book depicting the life of Jesus, and claiming to be by Jesus’ disciple Barnabas, who in this work is one of the twelve apostles. Two manuscripts are known to have existed, both dated to the late 16th century and written respectively in Italian and in Spanish.

This Gospel is considered by the majority of academics, including Christians and some Muslims (such as Abbas el-Akkad) to be late and pseudepigraphical;”

Joe Orsak says:

It doesn’t matter WHO was a disciple of Jesus i regards to that writing. What is a fact is that it is dated to the 1600′s and thus it is NOT by the Disciple Barnabas who existed during the time period of Jesus.

You are aware that there are MANY Gospels (The Gospel of Peter, The Gospel of Mary, etc.) and none of these are accepted as authoritative either right? Just because some Muslim writer in the 1600′s wrote something and slapped “Barnabas” on it doesn’t mean scholars accept it.

Shray Trinh says:

I would like to ask Joe Orsak and his company of haters to get their information from sources other than bias Christians. I think most of the stuff he argued was propogated by his own people! Now, I need to go study for a AP Calculus exam. Peace and blessings my brothers and sisters in Islam. Thanks for uploading this great performance by Dr. Naik ICNA. Peace out everyone. And Orsak, try and read all my comments before mindlessly ranting your foolishness.

Shray Trinh says:

Tabari, in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (father of Aisha) reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during pre Islamic period!If Aisha was born before in the Pre Islamic period, then she would be more than 13 years old during Hijrah!REMEMBER PROPHET MARRIED HER 1 YEAR AFTER HIJRAH,WHICH MEANS SHE WOULD BE IN HER EARLY 20S DURING THE TIME OF MARRIAGE!

Shray Trinh says:

POINT 3
According to Sahih Bukhari (which is the most authentic) of the hadiths) Aisha is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th Chapter of the Quran, was revealed, “I was a young girl”The 54th surah of The Quran was revealed nine years before Hijrah. So Aisha was a young girl (jariyah), and not an infant (sibyah) at that time!THE PROPHET MARRIED AISHA ONE YEAR AFTER HIJRAH! SO NOW WE KNOW SHE WAS A YOUNG GIRL, 9 YEARS BEFORE HIJRAH!

Shray Trinh says:

POINT 2
It is a known fact that the Asma, (the elder sister of Aisha) was 10 yearsolder than Aisha. It is reported that Asma died 73 years after Hijrah whenshe was 100 years old!

Shray Trinh says:

POINT 1
According to a number of narratives, Aisha accompanied the Muslims in the Battle of Badr and Uhud. It was usual for women to accompany men in battle so they can help in looking after the wounded.It was a strict rule that noone under the age of 15 was allowed to accompanyanyone in battle!BATTLE OF BADR WAS 2 YEARS AFTER HIJRAH AND BATTLE OF UHUD WAS 3 YEARS AFTER HIJRAH!REMEMBER PROPHET MUHAMMAD MARRIED HER 1 YEAR AFTER HIJRAH! meaning she COULD NEVER BEEN 9 when married to the prophet.

Shray Trinh says:

So are you denying the existence and fact that Barnabas was a disciple of Jesus? Are you going to say it was from the 1600s when it was only translated in Spanish and other languages during the time? Your contradicting yourself again Orsak…

Shray Trinh says:

Aisha was not married for sex, refuting your claims of pedophilia. You make it look like she was, and are continuing to say that she was slept with at age 9 when there is no valid confirmation that it is her right age at the time of marriage. You keep arguing the same thing, which leads me to believe you are admitting to the logical flaws of Christianity, and the scientific validity of the Quran, because you continuously argue on opinion based morality. HAH!

Shray Trinh says:

Sex with a 9 year old was not the motive behind the marriage old man. It was political and cultural, THUS refuting your claims of pedophilia entirely according to your OWN definition of it. Now, the fact that you are so staunch to continue to argue over morality shows the lack of material you have to argue against. There are varying sources of her age, some say 9 some say late teens early 20s. Bottom line noone knows, but there are a abundant amount of valid sources showing she wasnt 9.Cont.

Shray Trinh says:

The fact that you let a few lunatic terrorists shape your perception of an entire religion really shows how narrow minded you are Orsak. Now I’d feel bad if you turn out to be some old-fart Christian who likes Paul Ryan and Todd Akin, but regardless, I feel it is my civil duty to correct fools like you from using terrorism as a argument against the Muslim people. It is rude and a slur, and has no place in these debates. If you don’t understand that, then you are requested to leave this thread.

Shray Trinh says:

Need a representing attorney Raef?

Shray Trinh says:

Yeah looks like the Christian zombies are on the prowl, the same stupid dogma is repeated by you guys, as if you are robots programmed to do so, despite receiving more than adequate answers to these pointless allegations and claims. Sad. Bonne, why don’t you go and confession so that you can tell your priest that you are an idiot who let’s other fools influence your narrow range of thought. Assuming your a Catholic… eh same thing your all crazy.

Shray Trinh says:

Yeah I think if anything that references the countless sects that are comprised in Christianity, and their founders, for example, Joseph Smith and Martin Luther. Two lunatics who created rather large “Christian” sects. Which of the countless Christian sects do you belong to Orsak?

Shray Trinh says:

I just gave a small fraction of the very intricate and abundant variety of contradictions that your false holy book is comprised of. Go ahead and try to dismiss it as you will, it will reinforce the apparent fact that you are a victim of lies and deceit by the good ol’ clergy.

Shray Trinh says:

” I don’t have time to answer every supposed contradiction that can be copy pasted off of the internet so just give me what you feel is you best example.” The fact that you are afraid to answer all the contradictions that is known as the Bible shows that you are aware they exist, and just want to deny the fact that they are there by merely saying they have been answered “subsequently have been answered for hundreds of years.” Well what are these answers Orsak? Afraid to admit your wrong?

Shray Trinh says:

Jeremiah 3:12: … for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever.
God pleads with Israel to repent and return to Him.

Jeremiah 17:4: Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever.
Same book. Also note the previous chapter, where God brings disaster in verse 11: “…it is because your fathers forsook me,” generational punishment which again contradicts Ezekiel 18:20…
Lies and contradictions that are taken as true by the gullible, in this case YOU orsak

Shray Trinh says:

Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:26-27 Trees came before Adam.
Genesis 2:4-9 Trees came after Adam.

Genesis 1:20-21 and 26-27 Birds were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Birds were created after Adam.

Genesis 1:24-27 Animals were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Animals were created after Adam.

YET more contradictions propogated by your fake bible Orsak.

Shray Trinh says:

Cont. The light we see from the Andromeda Galaxy takes 2.2 million years to reach earth, which also debunks the argument that the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old.

Shray Trinh says:

Genesis 1:16 “God made two great lights,the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth” The stars gave light to the earth, YET the closest star, Alpha Centauri, is 4.3 light years away.The very first star light would have taken 4.3 years to reach earth. Cont.

Bonne Chance says:

Muhamed=Islam=Quran PEDOPHILE-RAPED 9 yo girl Aisha-65:4. TERRORIST-9:111. NUTS-37:6. LEWD-44:54. DIRT:SEX WITH VIRGINS IN HEAVEN-78:31 THUG-BEAT/RAPE WOMEN-4:34. HATE-5:51 DECEIT-16:106 CHOP OFF HANDS/FEET-5:33-BARBARIC SHARIA.OBSCENITIES f*** word-4 :3 RAPED Zaynab-HIS ADPTED SON’s WIFE-FORCED HIM TO DIVORCE HER-2:191 GIGOLO-LIVED OFF RICH OLD Khadīja-5:92 Quran=PLAGIARISM from THE BIBLE+ ABROGATIONS + SCIENTIFIC/HISTORICAL ERRORS eg SUN ORBITS FLAT EARTH-18:85, 20:53 EXMUSLIM.COM THEQURAN.COM

erlangshen1 says:

holy quran mentions blackholes, pulsars, fingerprints, dna splicing, even says the universe is EXPANDING and a thousand other facts, while the bible is full of lies, contradictions and hardcore porn, INCEST, rapes, rascism, women hate, baby genocides, ect and says FUCKALL about the universe, all it says is earth is 6000yr old that earth is flat and that 4Legged CHICKEN, talking DONKEYS, and UNICORNS are real animals. no wonder xtians burn with jealousy about the QURAN

LOGICTRUTHHERO says:

IN 911 THEY JUMPED TO SUICIDE COS THEY WANTED TO AVOID BURNING FOR A FEW SECONDS, BUT NOW THEY ARE BURNING NON STOP FOREVER FOR COMMITING SUICIDE THATS SO FUNNY. THEY WERE ALL RAPISTS, MURDERERS, INCEST RAPISTS, PORNSTARS, THIEVES, ADULTERERS, PLANNING TO KILL SOMEONE, GAMBLERS, CHILD MOLESTERS ECT SO GOOD THEYRE DEAD AND IN HELL . SO FUCKING FUNNY CANT STOP LAUGHING THEY AVOIDED A FEW SECONDS OF BURNING BY SUICIDE, BUT NOW THEYRE ALL IN HELL BURNING ALOT LONGER THAN A FEW SECONDS HAHAHAH

Raef Black says:

Dr Zakir should be a criminal lawyer.

Joe Orsak says:

Probably the same place He goes when Muslims blow up innocent people on Trains, plains, subways, etc.

15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.”

Matthew 7:15-17

xray488 says:

muhammed is not a pedo. its you xtians that are always in the news for raping your kids, stepsons, choir boys this is proof on news, not some bullshit about sumat from 1400yrs ago

LOGICTRUTHHERO says:

WHERE DOES THE HOLY GHOST GO WHEN CHRISTIANS ARE RAPING THERE OWN KIDS AND CHOIR BOYS, DOES IT WAIT OUTSIDE THE BODY UNTIL AFTER THE RAPE OR DOES IT STAY AND WATCH

Joe Orsak says:

Yes of course as the contradictions that are offered are actully the same contradictions that have been offered for hundred of years and subsequently have been answered for hundreds of years. Feel free to provide an example that you’d like answered. I don’t have time to answer every supposed contradiction that can be copy pasted off of the internet so just give me what you feel is you best example.

Joe Orsak says:

When you have something of substance to offer, feel free to come back and try again.

SuperSaiyanTroll1 says:

haha boldy loksssssssssssssss hahahahah u got no hair u old monkey =000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Alaha sgma says:

Your Allah was a great deceiver – Not the SAME GOD!** Like the fake god BAAL in Bible, Allah’s nature in Quran is deceptive and his prophet was perverted. IF Mohammed was prophet, then he should be reborn and baptized in the name of the F/S/H as commanded by the Son of God Jesus Christ. Note your Allah had no personal name YHWH (= I AM) and NO F/S/H nature concept. CLEAR? Reject the fake Allah!

mido fath says:

Honestly, this debate clearly showed how the Bible has a lot of simple and clear contradictions. I am sure that the REAL Bible which the Holy Coran refers to is the true message of God but its not the case anymore.@ Joe Orsak, can you find any logical explanation to the contradictions in the Bible that were brought by Dr.Zakir? I would really like to hear them out! Thanks

Joe Orsak says:

con·sum·mate: Make (a marriage or relationship) complete by having sexual intercourse.

Prior it was suggested that the word consummate could mean something other than sex. However, “consummate” in Sahih Bukhari, vol. 7, #64, the root word used is “dakhala”. From the Hans-Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary p273, it means “to enter, to pierce, to penetrate, to consummate the marriage, cohabit, sleep with a woman.”

So, as we can see, at the age of 9, Aisha was pierced, penetrated, slept with.

Joe Orsak says:

“How can you be so confident in saying he had sex with her when she bore him no children?”

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, #64

Narrated ‘Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, #65

Narrated ‘Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.

-cont

Joe Orsak says:

No. I scoff at the notion of presenting the Gospel of Barnabas as relevant in any way as anyone who studies the historicity of the documents knows full well that the Gospel of Barnabas originated in the 1600′s and there is no serious scholar anywhere who claims it is of early origin.

I scoff at the notion of someone who presents it while profanely and arrogantly mocking the person they’re speaking to.

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